Regional news: 
Why the uproar from Democrats over contentious town hall meetings?
Tony Ondrusek is founder and publisher of Insurance & Financial Advisor and IFAwebnews.com.
Democrats are apoplectic over the outrage expressed by ordinary citizens who are dissatisfied with the president and Congress’s attempt to “reform” the U.S. health care and insurance systems. (see samples of those meetings here)
But I am confused; Democrats are blaming Republicans and other “right-wing” special interests for staging the protests and setting up an atmosphere of discontent. But why are the Democrats worried? Democrats occupy the White House, and have control over both the Senate and House. They have the power to introduce, vote on and implement a complete overhaul to our health insurance system without one Republican vote.
They are worried because they see that the American people are not on board with their radical plans. Americans by the thousands are standing up and being counted. And the Democrats are scared to death that if they implement their plans without the “approval” of the American people, and if their plans fail, they will lose their stranglehold on power. And power is at the base of their concern about the level of discontent with their proposals.
It isn’t the Republicans that the Democrats are worried about, it is those within their own party who don’t support their hasty action that will have generational consequences.
Not since the days and months following 9/11 has our country seen such a unification and single-mindedness of purpose of America’s citizens. Perhaps their agitation provides an insight into how huge an issue this is, and how strongly the American people oppose such a drastic change to their culture and their rights.
19 Responses
- John Darlington Says:
August 11th, 2009 at 10:55 amWell done. Tony. The Democrats do not know how to react as witnessded by the remarks from Pelosi, Hoyer and even Obama. They are used to having their constiuents roll over and say nothing.I have never been so proud of being labeled a “mobster” and “unAmerican”.
By the way, my mob name is John “The Don” Darlington!
- J. Eric Persun, LUTCF Says:
August 11th, 2009 at 11:20 amYou’re intellectual dishonesty is showing…
To not acknowledge the millions of dollars a day the Health insurance industry is plowing into this manufactured astro-turf outrage would be comical if the situation weren’t so dire. Not to mention the outright lies and distortions that are being put forth by those with a vested interest in maintaining the status quo.
The funniest part is when these so called “ordinary citizens” are actually discovered to be employees of the very industry that is afraid of losing it’s grip of power and profits.
Even funnier is when great minds like Boehner, Palin, Steele et.al. keep referencing a think tank that is a wholly owned institution of the insurance lobby.
- Tony Ondrusek Says:
August 11th, 2009 at 11:28 amReplying to J. Eric Persun (above)
Eric: Yes, the health industry is plowing big bucks into lobbying. I don’t, however, see where they are manufacturing “astro-turf.”
I am pretty well connected, at some high levels, with those in the broker, carrier and even governmental side. I have not heard one, single mention from ANYONE about attending any of these meetings, or having them organized.
If you have some specific info about a carrier or anyone else who is doing this, please bring it to my attention. Go to the contact section of our website and email me. We will keep the information confidential. But to just blatantly accuse the carriers when it is not happening is irresponsible.
The point of my blog was that I don’t see why the Democrats just don’t vote on the bills and pass them. They don’t need one, single Republican to vote for them. And they don’t need to hold all these town hall meetings. So why are they holding them?
- J. Eric Persun, LUTCF Says:
August 11th, 2009 at 6:51 pmYou don’t see it because you don’t want to or you aren’t looking.
You’re the “well connected” Media Guy. Investigate instead of regurgitate.
Here’s your first Google Key word: Lewin Group.
Happy hunting.
- Tony Ondrusek Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 9:54 am(Reply to Eric’s two comments above)
Eric:
Nice way to avoid answering the question. I will ask it again: The Congress and the president don’t need one, single Republican vote to pass health care “reform.” If that is the case, why are they holding town hall meetings? - J. Eric Persun, LUTCF Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 11:19 amTony,
Really? You don’t know? Or are you trying to avoid the main thrust of this conversation? That being Manufactured astro-turf dissent.
If you are really asking about why they are holding town hall meetings, I would suggest you are being intentionally obtuse. I’ll answer any way giving you the benefit of doubt.
Every year at this time, Congress goes on vacation and in an effort to inform their constituents and hopefully get re-elected they hold local meetings to “press the flesh” and answer questions. This is not some “out of the ordinary” phenomenon unique to this year alone as your question would indicate. Additionally, I would suggest, they are working to assuage the fears being ginned up by the fear-mongers with a vested interest in keeping things as they are. (but you know this already, don’t you?)
You suggested that I am being irresponsible because you claim to not “personally” know anybody that is manufacturing this fear and false dissent. Yet in the same breath you acknowledge that the industry is indeed plowing a lot of money into the lobbying effort to halt any real reform. That’s an interesting perspective.
You do understand that there are companies out there that will take money from any person, company or coalition of companies and use that money to create a campaign to introduce legislation favorable to their objectives or conversely, kill legislation that they deem adversarial to their goals, don’t you? These companies are called Lobbyists and most of them lean toward one side of the aisle or the other.
So going back to the premise of the money being spent and you not knowing anybody that’s “personally” involved in this manufactured, astro-turf effort to misinform the public, it’s not happening organically. To suggest otherwise would truly be irresponsible.
In this case there are three distinct groups with a vested interest in derailing real reform, Republicans and the Pharma and Health insurance industry. It’s no coincidence that the latter two are biggest contributors to the first. (Recently they’ve increased their contributions to the “Blue Dogs” for good reason.)
The lengths to which these groups are willing to go are almost astounding. And it’s not limited to mere distortion. Everything from out and out lies (i.e. “Death Panels”) to citing very partisan think tanks as being completely “non-partisan” (i.e. the Lewin Group).
But it doesn’t stop there; we’ve recently seen members of Congress being hung in effigy and suggestions being made that other members be “terrorized”, while still others are bringing loaded hand guns to these town hall meetings.
Yet, you have the audacity to call me irresponsible? Nice try.
Oh, and finally, you’re right. The Dems don’t need the Reps to pass this legislation but unlike previous administrations and congresses that threatened to use the “nuck-u-lar” option and called anyone that opposed them “unpatriotic”, this group seems to be about building consensus. Maybe that’s their biggest mistake.
- Tony Ondrusek Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 12:32 pmEric,
You’re twisting what I wrote (actually, what I didn’t write) to suit your needs.I never wrote that I don’t personally know of anyone that is manufacturing fear and false dissent (I don’t). What I wrote was that I don’t know of anyone who is organizing the outrage of ordinary citizens that is being vocalized at town hall meetings.
Yes, insurers are dropping big dollars for lobbying in Washington. So is Verizon, and the AARP, and Exxon, and even Mars candy maker, which lobbied hard to ensure that the troops in Iraq have M&M’s in their ration kits.
But to suggest that the insurers are the ones that are “ginning up” the dissent (as you call it…wasn’t it Thomas Jefferson — and Hillary Clinton — who said that dissent is the highest form of patriotism?) is ridiculous. Perhaps you are part of the kind of crowd that said, “I can’t understand how Ronald Reagan won; I don’t know anyone who voted for him.” Well, I know a lot of folks who are pissed off that Congress is wasting time on this when there are other more pressing problems right now, and none of those people belongs to any group that is organizing “dissent” at the town hall meetings. They are ordinary people who are very fearful about the fed trying to rush through a change to our country and our culture without proper investigation or public support.
Why won’t Congress and the president fix Social Security first? Or Medicare? Or Medicaid? These wonderful programs, set up by the federal governmen with the intention of being a bandage, have instead become bloated, inneficient and fraud-ridden bureaucracies that are teetering on bankruptcy. Yet the fed wants to create an agency that is going to make those three look like kindergarten playtime. And that, Eric, is the crux of it.
It’s not numbers. It’s not how much money is being spent. It’s about the president wanting to force his idealism of a government-controlled health system on the citizenry. We just don’t want it.
That is not to say that the health insurance and health delivery systems don’t need some overhauls. I have been preaching that FOR YEARS. I have said over and over and over and over that if health insurers didn’t reign in premiums, work on loosening underwriting requirements, and tie profits to reducing premiums and executive compensation; and if there isn’t tort reform so that doctors can afford to practice and the number of unnecessary tests drops; and if medical records don’t become more easily accessible and electronic; and if drug costs aren’t contained, that we would see the government come in and try to take over the business. And that is exactly what is happening.
But it is not too late for the federal government to work with federal and state regulators to make those necessary things happen (and not take it over), while the fed focuses primarily on fixing Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid.
People are scared, and rightfully so. They are voicing their opinions. They are not being “organized” (unless you consider a blog posting telling people about upcoming meetings and encouraging them to come out “organizing”). They are exercising their right to free speech, and for once, their elected officials are perplexed because they are facing an electorate that wants the government to set priorities and do things in a measured, responsible manner.
In this case, it is not doing that.
- J. Eric Persun, LUTCF Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 2:10 pmTony,
The Following is your direct quote:
“I am pretty well connected, at some high levels, with those in the broker, carrier and even governmental side. I have not heard one, single mention from ANYONE about attending any of these meetings, or having them organized.
If you have some specific info about a carrier or anyone else who is doing this, please bring it to my attention. Go to the contact section of our website and email me. We will keep the information confidential. But to just blatantly accuse the carriers when it is not happening is irresponsible.”I’m not twisting anything you have or haven’t said. I’m merely responding to what you wrote.
Yet at every turn you keep getting further and further from the topic. And then you attempt to put words in my mouth about Reagan? Really Tony, Stick to the Point.
The parties with the vested interest in maintaining the status quo don’t do their own dirty work. They pay lobbyist to do it for them. And you’re refusing to acknowledge this simple fact doesn’t make it any less true, however, it is genuinely dishonest.
You asked for specifics, I gave you some. Specifically the Lewin Group, a wholly owned think tank that keeps being offered up as a “non-partisan” expert by the opposition to reform. Yet it’s part of Ingenix, which is owned by United Healthcare Group, the insurance behemoth that has been buying up insurance companies left and right, expanding its reach into just about every segment of the health-insurance market. Its flagship, UnitedHealthcare, helps make it the largest health insurer in the country. It’s a safe bet that United is not too keen on a public plan that might shrink its business.
That’s where it all begins. We can then move on to the numerous lobbying groups and individuals funded by the industry:
60 Plus, Bonner & Associates (recently in the news for Stealing Letter head to use to cloud an issue), Recess Rally, Rick Scott, Conservatives For Patient Rights, Dick Armey, and Let’s not forget, a group that calls itself Right Principles from where a leaked three page memo details how protesters should behave at town hall events.
Under the heading “Inside the Hall” it says:
You need to rock-the-boat early in the Rep’s presentation, Watch for an opportunity to yell out and challenge the Rep’s statements early. If he blames Bush for something or offers other excuses — call him on it, yell back and have someone else follow-up with a shout-out. The goal is to rattle him.
When the formal Q&A session begins get all your hands up and keep them up…. The balance of the group should applaud when the question is asked, further putting the Rep on the defensive.
Who’s giving these rent-a-mob instructions like this? Well that memo was written by a man named Bob MacGuffie. Bob McGuffie is associated with an organization called Freedom Works. Freedom Works is a Washington DC lobbying firm, run by former Republican Majority leader Dick Armey.The point being, just because you claim that you don’t know anybody involved or haven’t heard anyone claim to be involved, thereby proves that it’s happening organically is laughable.
But after all Tony, it is your blog and by rights that means you can say any batsh!t crazy thing you want and claim it to be fact. That still doesn’t make it true.
- Tony Ondrusek Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 3:03 pmEric:
When I wrote that I don’t know of any carrier, broker or government type, and them not mentioning attending a town hall, I meant that I have heard from none ENCOURAGING anyone to attend the meetings. Perhaps you have. I haven’t. And I can promise you that none of the people I know who went have gotten direction from Dick Armey, or 60 Plus, or Right Principles, or any of the other groups that you mention.
We really need to cut this B.S. I could sit here and write about the union groups and ACORN and all the other groups that are organizing to counter the voices of those who oppose the major health care reform. If your intent is to convince me that somehow there is a “vast right-wing conspiracy” that is behind all the protests, you can save the effort to type…I personally have not seen it. That doesn’t mean that some might not exist — as would also be the case with the more “liberal” groups that are sending their own supporters — but the fact remains that a large number of Americans are independently attending these, many of them are identifying themselves as Democrats, and they are not happy.
No one can make up the fact that support among Americans — including Democrats — for this reform is sinking faster than the Titanic. Every poll I have seen shows that. Unless the polling firms are being bribed to change the results, it appears that Americans as a whole are against major change.
My point all along has been that the entire health care reform issue is moving much too fast, with much too much at stake, and Americans are rightfully upset and leery. What is so wrong about our fellow citizens voicing their opinions and being heard? Oh, right, it’s because they are being manipulated by large companies and subversive groups that organize these demonstrations and bus people in from other states to disrupt the proceedings. Oops, sorry, that was the Democrats who bussed in people from out of state (e.g. the president’s town hall meeting in New Hampshire yesterday).
Perhaps you can’t believe that Americans are truly not opposed to it because you are not in the crowd who would be against it. Near where I live and own my small business, fellow business owners are very upset. They are not upset because most of their employees will probably leave their employer-sponsored plan and move to a government plan thus providing huge savings (even if there is a fine if they decide not to offer coverage to their workers), but because their own health care will be minimized to an unacceptable level.
What we will see happen is that doctors will begin to be paid for all services the same way they are paid by Medicare. There will be scales and maximums, and the high wage earning of doctors will deteriorate. Then, we will see the standard of medical professionals deteriorate, to the point where specialists and other outstanding doctors will be ordinary joe’s and jane’s who are not in it for the money and prestige. Frankly, I want doctors who want to be called “doctor” and who make good money and drive nice cars and spend years and years and decades perfecting their craft so that they can save lives. But if you put a cap on what they can earn, the level of professionalism will drop, and the level of care provided will not be the same.
Frankly, I am glad that when my father was diagnosed with an advanced cancer, he was able to shop around to find the best doctor who could help him, after being told by at least one doc that it was too far advanced and he should just enjoy the year left of his life. Instead, he found a doctor who had a differing opinion, he didn’t need approval from any governemnt agency, he “hired” that doctor, and with surgery, chemo and radiation, my father is now cancer-free for three years this month.
Under the programs proposed by Obama and Congress, my father would be dead.
- J. Eric Persun, LUTCF Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 4:43 pmLet me see if I got this straight, since you haven’t heard of it, it must be false?
I want to live in your world… sounds like things are a lot simpler there.
Yes more and more people are attending these town halls and the polls are going south. This is precisely the point. Prior to this recess the polls were clear, 71% in favor of reform. Now that the issue has been clouded with outright lies, (i.e. Death Panels and other scary stuff) people are scared and confused. Fear-mongering works.(otherwise there would be no lobbyists) Democrats are pissed because they see how weak their leaders in the house and senate are and no clear plan is in sight yet.
But fear not Tony, I am not trying to convince you of anything. I’ve realized after reading many of your posts that your mind is closed. I write only to let others know that the truth is out there.
So when you say that reform is moving too fast, reasonable people get to see others who will counter, “too fast? We’ve been working on this issue for more than 2 decades.”
It’s only those with a vested interest and those that serve them, (knowingly or not), that fear reform is happening too fast. Ask anybody that’s been denied coverage, thrown off the rolls for being sick or had a high deductible plan forced on them because their employer had to drop the other plan due to high cost and now find themselves in medical bankruptcy if it’s moving too fast.
I’m glad to hear that your father is doing well but your last line is yet another outright lie.There is nothing in the plan that would’ve changed that outcome.
- Tony Ondrusek Says:
August 12th, 2009 at 5:10 pmEric:
I agree with what you wrote: “Democrats are pissed because they see how weak their leaders in the house and senate are and no clear plan is in sight yet.”
Exactly. There is no plan. It is thousands of pages of mismatched items thrown together with little thought to the outcome. Sort of what the SEC did with Rule 151A. They acted quickly without full vetting, and the agents suffered. Now that they know the consequences, they are changing to rules to make it fair to agents again.
If the president is not in a hurry, why did he insist reform be enacted before the summer recess? Heck, even leaders in his own party knew that was unreasonable. Now, the rush is on to pass legislation quickly.
No one is saying that changes need to be made with health insurance and tort reform. Denial of coverage, high deductibles, etc., are all issues that need to be addressed. But throwing out the entire system in favor of one all-encompassing bill is a recipe for disaster. Let’s fix it piece by piece, while placing the focus on where it should really be, fixing Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid. (Strange how each time I metion them you avoid those issues.)
In closing, in England, heart stints are not provided to ANYONE over the age of 59. That is the law. If you’re 61 and you need a stint, too bad. And some folks want the same for the U.S. Puhlease.
- J. Eric Persun, LUTCF Says:
August 13th, 2009 at 11:37 amTony,
I’m avoiding the issues of SS and Medicare/caid solely to keep you on topic. I’d be more than happy to discuss them another time but it seems you like to cloud the issue by throwing in things that have nothing to do with the main points.
Case in point, your last two paragraphs above: I quote, “No one is saying that changes need to be made with health insurance and tort reform.”
Really? No one is saying that? I think almost everyone is saying that. More accurately no one is talking about throwing out the entire system in favor of one all-encompassing bill. That’s just more fear-mongering. It’s been clearly stated that if you like the plan that you currently have, you keep it.
And now we’re back to England? I thought it was Cancer that was the concern? Now it’s Heart (sic) stints? Fascinating, do you get this from the same source over at “Investor’s Business Daily” that claims if genius scientist, Stephen Hawking were in England he’d be dead? Funny how that one turns out.
Tony I’ll tell you what’s even funnier, a quick Google search on the phrase: “No One over 59 gets heart stents in England” Proves just how far people like you are willing to go to misinform the masses. It’s not a law it’s not even a practice or something that happens every now and again. It is in fact PATENTLY FALSE! I don’t normally call people a liar unless I know they are without a doubt and I’m looking them in the eye. So I’m still willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this one. But for you to operate a publication meant to inform when you seem unable to get your facts straight… Puhlease.
I said it before, Investigate don’t regurgitate. If you’re going to print something as demonstrably false as that, how accurate is the rest of this?
- Tony Ondrusek Says:
August 13th, 2009 at 11:54 amEric:
You have hit the nail square on the head. You have stated the problem EXACTLY as it exists.
“I’m avoiding the issues of Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.” That’s right, Eric, you ARE avoiding those major issues. And so is Congress and the president. It is tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic while the ship is sinking. Perhaps the priorities are a little skewed.
Thanks for pointing out my typo (stint vs stent with the “sic”); I didn’t point out yours, but if it makes you feel intellectually superior, please have at it.
And also, thanks for labelling me as one of those “people like you,” instead of referring to me as a fellow citizen who happens to have a different opinion.
Your humility, compassion and respect for diversity of opinion is overwhelming.
- J. Eric Persun, LUTCF Says:
August 13th, 2009 at 2:51 pmTony,
Wow, I’m impressed. Not only do you take my statement out of context but you’ve proven my point, all in one fell swoop!
You can’t or won’t stay on topic because you have a problem with your FACTS. How convenient of you to switch from Fact, (“it’s the LAW in England”), to I don’t respect your “opinion”!
I would’ve let this go along time ago if you weren’t pushing opinion as fact. And now you want to berate me because I don’t respect your opinion, an opinion which has obviously been formed on a basis of untruths.
I told you before I’m not writing for you. I didn’t point out you’re typo for my feelings of anything. I’m writing because you’ve proven yourself willing to say anything while ignoring the facts to push your “beliefs” as truths. That’s why I’m writing.
I’m writing because a lot of old lady’s (and men) out there got that same ignorant, fear-inducing letter or e-mail that you got, you know, the one that makes that ridiculous claim about “stents”, and now they’re scared. Unfortunately there’s nothing I can do for each and every one of them except respond to the lies when I see them in print.
So to your point about me labeling you, I have to ask, what label does an editor deserve when he prints opinion as fact in order to propagate a myth based on lies?
And finally, bringing it all full circle…Tell me, you being the “well Connected” media guy that you are, where do you think that fear-inducing letter or email, (the one you were so quick to pull false facts from), came from? Tony, that’s a rhetorical question… the answer, lies above.
“Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.” John Adams
- Tony Ondrusek Says:
August 13th, 2009 at 4:05 pmEric:
You win. You have changed my mind. Bring on health care reform. Change the system. Make Americans less happy and less healthy.
Wait, do I really mean that? I dunno. According to you, I lie.
So I guess neither of us will know what the truth is.
- J. Eric Persun Says:
August 13th, 2009 at 11:42 pmTony, you’re a funny guy. Funny in that you simply can’t acknowledge that beliefs are fleeting but facts are firm, solid, rocks. Unfortunately, for you, in this case, you’re floating on opinion and getting pelted by the rocks of facts. It’s ok to admit when you’re wrong, I do it almost daily! Just print the facts from now on and I’ll leave you alone. Or remove me from your mailing list and I’ll never know what kind of distortions you’re printing. Whenever you’re ready I’ll be happy to debate your stance on ss and Medicare/aid.
GO STEELERS!!!!
- J. Eric Persun Says:
August 14th, 2009 at 12:05 amPS. Next time you’re in “the burgh”, look me up! I’ll
buy you a beer in the old Chauncy’s, (it’s now the “Buckhead Saloon”)! - Tony Ondrusek Says:
August 17th, 2009 at 11:29 amEric, simply writing over and over that my opinions are not valid does not make them invalid. But wait, even the president and his “czars” and “czarinas” are now recognizing that the American people don’t want a public option plan; they hinted during all the weekend news shows — and even the president himself said — that a public option plan is only a part of his idea for reform, and that it might not actually be part of any final bill.
It’s easy enough to unsubscribe from our weekly eNews updates. The next time you get one, simply click “unsubcribe,” and you won’t receive any more of our “distortions.”
Perhaps we can both agree to disagree by clicking on the following link, and agreeing that this is more important than any debate we might have! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=naaU8YHvoGc&feature=related - J. Eric Persun, LUTCF Says:
August 26th, 2009 at 1:31 pmFinally, Tony, that’s exactly the point. You can “believe” any crazy thing you want and your “beliefs” can form the foundation of any “opinion” you wish to print. However, when you’ve formed those “beliefs and opinions” based on easily disprovable fallacies, distortions and out-right-lies, it renders your opinions inept at best.
Somebody once said, “opinions are like noses, everyone’s got one.” Facts on the other hand are infallible and not subject to “beliefs”. I can tell you the sky is blue and you can choose to believe otherwise. I can use a spectrometer and prove to you that the wave length of the light is in the appropriate range to indicate that the sky is indeed blue. You can still choose to believe otherwise. That would not make your opinion more valid than the facts.
I’ve given you facts and you still want to argue that your opinions are valid. Which brings us full circle; It has now been proven that the United Health Care Group has indeed been involved in exactly the behavior that you so vehemently denied in the third post above:
Last week, UnitedHealth Group–the second largest health insurance company in the country–sent out a letter to its employees urging them to call UHG’s United for Health Reform Advocacy Hotline to speak with an advocacy specialist about health care reform. The advocacy specialist, according to the letter, is there to help UHG employees write personalized messages to elected officials, and to arm them with talking points to use at local events in order to better oppose the public health insurance option.
However, a source who’s insured by UHG–and who also obtained the letter–called the hotline on Tuesday and says the company directed him to an events list hosted by the right wing America’s Independent Party, and suggested he attend an anti-health care reform tea party sponsored by religious fundamentalist Dave Daubenmire, scheduled for today outside the office of Blue Dog Rep. Zack Space (D-OH).
If I were you, I’d look for better “connections”. And we don’t need to keep it confidential.
BTW, I always enjoy that polka!
